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Post by Melinda Eriksdaughter on Jan 8, 2006 10:40:45 GMT -5
Yeah, I never said they were evil. But I do prefer the grim and gritty to the four-color comics. My favorite villians out of the comics, though, are Mr. Sinister and the Green Goblin. One's an evil, manipulative supergenius, and the other's a twisted, insane supergenius. Both make for interesting storylines, and are, frankly, more interesting than some of the heroes they go up against.
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Post by DM Cyphus on Jan 8, 2006 14:29:19 GMT -5
Hey...I'm not shy of the "grim and gritty," as it's being called. Dark characters are fine by me. But a character with a moral leaning to good is a bit easier to motivate...at least for me, that is. I also don't find characters that start out as evil to be as interesting...and for most evil characters it's harder to survive in the world. Selfish and good (or neutral for that matter) tend to balance one another out. Selfish and evil make for a lot of death, generally. Sometimes character death. And that makes for a pretty rocky start. Anyhow...I'm glad that you do mention this. Because we will have dark tendencies. Dark situations and dark villains tend to mean darker heroes with questions. But it'll take time to develop, as always. And please know this...when it comes to the alignment questions...I'm a spirit of the law as opposed to the letter of the law kinda guy. Oh...and Batman was Neutral Good. He was a vigilant who operated outside of the law, true. But he was methodical (Detective) and organized. He just worked alone. And he often had a tendency to turn the villains over to the proper authorities, when possible (Arkham). Hell...he may have even been Lawful Good...he just sped the process along.
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Post by Melinda Eriksdaughter on Jan 8, 2006 15:55:21 GMT -5
Depends on who's writing him, Cyphus. There are some times when he is clearly NOT good. I'd put him as a solid Lawful Neutral. He generally leaves the bad guys for the cops, but he also very violently busts skulls if people annoy him.
Superman would be Lawful good, though he tends towards Lawful Stupid at times.
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Post by jamondashwood on Jan 8, 2006 16:36:29 GMT -5
Okay, I'll give you that Batman was methodical and orginized. But he also didn't answer to anyone, not even the Justice League (which he helped found). He had no problem turning people over to the athourties but if someone got hurt or killed in the process no tears shed. So I think I have to agree with Stewart, LN. My appologise for the Batman fans I upset with my previous CG rating.
Superman is most definatly LG, unless you read the early comics. In Action Comics #1, the first appearance of the man of steel, he's closer to LN than LG. But Superman has only one weekness (and a stupid one at that) so he has to go WAY above and beyond to assure the fragile humans he's on their side. Otherwise it would just be chaos and panic. You already see at least one super secret military group bent on finding a way to kill Superman (makers of Doomsday). I think when you've got someone who has no fear, there's no reason not to be Lawful Stupid, if you don't worry about the guys inside with the machineguns and bazookas, why waste time trying to sneak in... just kick the door in and take them all to jail.
I want a comicbook character more like the Punisher... all the times Superman and Batman turn over the super villians to the police... have them tried and convicted... only to break or, or WORSE be released.... then to do it all over again?
I don't know about you, but it would only take me once or twice being burned like that to decide the whole system's broken and just cap all the super villians as I catch them.
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Post by jamondashwood on Jan 8, 2006 16:38:37 GMT -5
Okay, I'll give you that Batman was methodical and orginized. But he also didn't answer to anyone, not even the Justice League (which he helped found). He had no problem turning people over to the athourties but if someone got hurt or killed in the process no tears shed. So I think I have to agree with Stewart, LN. My appologise for the Batman fans I upset with my previous CG rating.
Superman is most definatly LG, unless you read the early comics. In Action Comics #1, the first appearance of the man of steel, he's closer to LN than LG. But Superman has only one weekness (and a stupid one at that) so he has to go WAY above and beyond to assure the fragile humans he's on their side. Otherwise it would just be chaos and panic. You already see at least one super secret military group bent on finding a way to kill Superman (makers of Doomsday). I think when you've got someone who has no fear, there's no reason not to be Lawful Stupid, if you don't worry about the guys inside with the machineguns and bazookas, why waste time trying to sneak in... just kick the door in and take them all to jail.
I want a comicbook character more like the Punisher... all the times Superman and Batman turn over the super villians to the police... have them tried and convicted... only to break or, or WORSE be released.... then to do it all over again?
I don't know about you, but it would only take me once or twice being burned like that to decide the whole system's broken and just cap all the super villians as I catch them.
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Post by Melinda Eriksdaughter on Jan 8, 2006 17:36:27 GMT -5
Likewise, if I was one of the supervillians, all those stupid heroes would be dead as doornails. For instance, in the Superman movie, Lex Luthor drapes Kryptonite around Superman's neck, and then wraps chains around him so eventually he'll drown, and then leaves to go do something else. Me, I'd hand the kryptonite on his neck, and then, once he's weakened, shoot him in the head, repeatedly, until he has no more face. The evil plan can be pushed back thirty minutes to do the job right, afterall.
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Post by DM Cyphus on Jan 8, 2006 17:41:37 GMT -5
lol...true...true. Though I could never really get into Punisher. I was more of a Daredevil fan myself. I still hold to the Batman NG assesment though. My dad kept a lot of the old Batman and Superman comics about (which, BTW, I agree with the Superman assesment...a pretty bland superhero IMHO...but whatever). It wasn't really until they started getting into the Dark Knight and Detective series that Batman started getting really interesting. I was really happy with Batman Begins because I felt that flick really got the mood of those earlier, darker series like that. But one thing still always stood out about Batman....he held morals in high regard. Not to the extent of Christian Bale's Batman in the latest take, but it was still there. He was a scary guy nonetheless. Either way, I think we all view the darker story lines in much the same way. As for alignment, I'd just like to keep the group close together. I don't expect you to be banner boys for truth, justice and the Faerunian way. I like depth. So...dark works.
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Post by lawfather on Jan 8, 2006 17:47:19 GMT -5
The solution to the Lex Luthar puzle is... instead of walking in there and asking Lex to tell you the plan until you use your x-ray vision and open the box with kyrptonite... you break arms and legs of Mr Luthor. Then you get a screwdriver and put it in his temple. Tell him "If you like being so smart, you'll tell me quickly what I want to know. " If he hesitates... screwdriver labodomy, slowly of course so he can re-think. Don't ask for evil guys plans unless you're willing to do what it takes to get it out of them.
I also would have broken all of Lois Lane's fingers for printing the column with all of our "off the record" conversation.... what kind of dumb ass tells the fact that he can't see through lead to a reporter?
What kind of reporter prints it so that all the bad guys go around encased in lead? Be smart, be ruthless, be efficiant.
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Post by delkar on Jan 8, 2006 19:02:23 GMT -5
In an attempt to try to get this off the super hero debate...
I'm leaning towards NG or TN if the group dictates it...
I still haven't decided in what I would attempt classwise though...perhaps if everyone else can post what their mind is we can get working on something.
A question I have...will this be more of an urban based campaign? Dungeoneering?
If needed I can really fit any role...I just need to find what the wavelenth of the group is.
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Post by Melinda Eriksdaughter on Jan 8, 2006 19:14:30 GMT -5
Ah, but Cyphus, isn't your char LN? And doesn't he hold morals in high regard? The dark knight was not good. Lawful, yes. Not evil, certainly. But good? Not hardly. He's pretty much the standard bearer for LN.
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Post by jamondashwood on Jan 8, 2006 20:07:57 GMT -5
To answer Delkar's question. I've already made my char (assuming Denny approves it). I'm hardly marshall. I came up with a new character concept but still managed to make a gnomish caster type... go fig *sigh*. Denny would make a campaign where 80% of the folk there are gnomes.
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Post by DM Cyphus on Jan 9, 2006 11:04:24 GMT -5
Okay...time for some answers...
I'll say no alignments are off limits, save evil. I would like to keep this a good/neutral geared campaign. Soon I'll build the new section for the Lantan game.
Delkar, you asked about urban v. dungeoneering. This campaign will, hopefully, provide a little of everything. Lantan is a small place, and for most the idea of adventuring throughout Lantan seems pointless. They figure that, for the most part, Lantan has been explored all it can be. Kids grow up and dream of exploring an empty, uncharted world beyond the Shroud...most don't think to look in their own land for anything interesting, except the mages. The problem there is that the mages view "adventure" as merely a means to record information. Few venture very far into their endeavors. When considering the Shroud, the academics debate and theorize...though few concern themselves with bringing it down or looking beyond it.
There are dungeons to be crawled and mysterious areas to be looked into. Political intrigue, if desired, can be found. Urban adventures are readily available...especially in the bigger cities. You'll notice that Lantan is split into three islands: A larger northern island, a larger southern island, and a small island to the southeast of the north island. Forested areas, slightly mountainous/cavernous areas and colonized/urban areas exist on both of the large islands...with the smaller island being more of a military base/port that probably served more of a purpose before the Shroud (in fact, there are many docks that are no longer in use on the eastern side of that island, facing the Shroud). The North is considered to be the truly civilized lands. All races can be found in the North, and some dangerous areas do exist with the more monstrous races/magical creatures...mainly the forests, which are patrolled regularly by the Elves. I may update the map soon with some more forest areas and mountains.
Down South, however, there are some very uncivilized lands. While Orcs can be found in the North, most adapt a bit better to the "civilized" way of things. Your Orcish tribes and nomads live down South, roaming and hunting and, occasionally, raping and pillaging the smaller establishments in the South and along the Southern coast of the Northern island.
The northern island is ruled by a monarchy. The King resides in Lethtar, the largest city in Lantan. The King is considered the rightful ruler of Lantan, though his power does not extend much farther than the northern island and the old port. The kingdom is referred to as True Lantan. Every other establishment (city, hamlet, town, etc.) is governed by a noble family. Other nobles do exist in these areas, and occasionally the seat of power will change from one family to another. Though the King does his best to stop it, noble wars have existed, some even launching an assault at the families of other cities to relocate or extend their power. In the city of Lethtar, there are occasionally challengers for the royal family. For the past two centuries, however, the same family has ruled Lantan with little in the way of challenges. The current King has managed to reign with very few blood wars or skirmishes taking place. He has done well to surround himself with trusted families in Lethtar, though his control is somewhat diminished in other areas. Even establishments as small as hamlets have a noble in charge. Most hoping to grow into the next Lethtar.
The south is a bit more chaotic. Boetrah, at the southernmost tip of the island, controls many of the larger cities and lands on the southern island, but generally does not keep a tight grasp on its holdings. The further north one travels on the southern island and the less orderly life becomes. Because of this chaotic buffer, communication between the north and south has been limited and sparse. This has led to a bit of bad blood between the two.
Boetrah and the rest of Southern Lantan, the official title of the lands ruled by the local government, are ruled by nobles as well. The heads of the noble families form a council in the capital city-state of Boetrah to make all major decisions. The families war for power in the south as well...and several times over the past two centuries a single family has managed to rise to the top as a royal family, only to be fought once again and have the council reestablished.
Magical universities exist in both of these cities, as well as in Samber, Illul and Sundrah in True Lantan. While spells from all magical schools may be learned in all of the universities, specialists tend to come from specific universities:
Lethtar: Abjuration, Evocation, Transmutation Boetrah: Necromancy, Conjuration Samber: Conjuration, Evocation Illul: Enchantment, Illusion, Evocation Sundrah: Divination, Enchantment, Abjuration
Lethtar's university is the only to focus on Transmutation. This city relies on magic more than any of the other cities in Lantan. (Though that is still less than most cities in your typical D&D game.) Its Transmutation specialists have aided both the mechanical and magical necessities in Lethtar for centuries. Lethtar's university's color is purple.
Boetrah is famous for its Necromancers and Summoners. Because of this, Boetrah and its university are often regarded as dark, dangerous places. In truth, the crowd drawn by this dangerous combination does often tend to make the hair on one's neck stand up when in Boetrah. Boetrah's university's color is black.
Samber is the only place in True Lantan where one can pursue Conjuration and become a Master Summoner. It is a common rumor that the Summoners in Boetrah are better capable of educating novice apprentices in the art of Conjuration, though most still choose Sambah to avoid the Necromancy crowd in Boetrah. Samber's university's color is gold.
Illul is located near a large mountain area that was once heavily populated with Dwarves and Gnomes. The Gnomes, finding themselves most welcome as inventors and mechanics, have mostly moved into the city and blend well with the Human population. The Dwarves have taken over the mountains (though Gnomes are still found there) and few venture into the city from their secluded area. With a booming Gnomish population, it didn't take long for the magical university in Illul to become the place for potential Enchanters and Illusionists. A fair number of powerful Evokers have also been known to recieve their education in Illul as well. Illul's university's color is green.
Sundrah is home to the largest Elven population in all of Lantan. The Elves of Sundrah have only recently begun taking non-Elven apprentices in Sundrah (about 200 years ago). The greatest Diviners come from Sundrah. They are also home to the greatest collection of Lantan history. It is rumored that the Elves know much more of the Shroud than they let on. The current King's great grandfather had hoped that by admitting several of his own into the university of Sundrah, he might learn the secret of the Shroud and someday extend his power beyond even the islands of Lantan. But, to his dismay, after being admitted, his kin failed to report back to him with any great secrets of Lantan or the Shroud, and all chose to stay in Sundrah to teach another generation of humans the art of Divination. Sundrah's university's color is white.
Each school has its own colors. And mages can be identified by their attire easily:
Novice: Often a novice wears a cloak or cape bearing the color of his university of choice. This is a good identifier, but occasionally someone will be identified as a mage who simply prefers to wear a cloak of that particular university's color. A novice is any caster who is either attending the university or has finished all necessary coursework at a university. After coursework is completed, a novice must travel about and master several spells and complete a dissertation on some type of lore before advancing. Novice titles include: Apprentice and Tyro (i.e. Tyro Jervis Dench [Bill's character] or Apprenctice Dench) Common levels: Wiz1-2
Mage: A full mage is an individual who has graduated from the university. All coursework has been completed, the individual has mastered several spells without university assistance and completed a dissertation on some type of Lantan lore. A full mage will wear a cloak or cape with the universities colors along with a broach or medallion with the symbol of his specialized school. Title: Mage (i.e. Mage Jarvis Dench) Common levels: Wiz3-5
Master: A master is an individual who has achieved Mage status but has also proven himself in the mastery of greater spells. In game terms, a Master is any Mage who makes it above level 6 in their spellcasting class. Since most magic-users multiclass and are rare as it is...this is a prestigious title. Masters wear robes (sometimes magical) from their university with the university's color. These are very fine robes, and unmistakable from ordinary robes. The robes are in addition to the identifiers above. Title: Master, MageMaster (i.e. MageMaster Dench) Common Levels: 6+
Professor: Professors at universities are individuals who have chosen to reside at the university and teach full time to new apprentices. Professors have the responsibility of sifting through potential apprentices and determining who is eligible, as well as performing all required administration for the university. Professors must be Masters before being invited to teach at the university the graduated from. Occasionally Masters may become professors at other universities where their specialty school is also taught, but this is very, very rare. In addition to the attire above, Professors are granted special rings to identify their status. Title: Professor, Master Professor Common levels: 9+
Spells may be learned at any of the universities for a donation. Any spell above 3rd level, however, can only be learned at a university where the spell's school is specialized in. Universities open themselves to graduates of all the other universities, with the exception of the Elven university. Often special favors or prerequisites are set forth before they will allow outsiders to learn the greater spells they store.
Okay...I think that's all the extra info I can give you at the moment. I'll have a city make-up for where you're starting out really soon. I know I went into great detail about magic in the area...and it probably seems like its everywhere, but I can assure you it isn't. As adventurers and/or mercenaries...you may find you access it and interact with it more than most. You'll still fight magical villains...encounter magical areas...and magical beasts. The magical beasts will be more common than the villains, of course. Magical equipment may be fewer and farther between...but it'll be that way for the villains and society too. Access to it is easier with university attendees and graduates...and even easier if you've got somebody making it in the group, of course. lol Anyway...I think you'll see how it all plays out as we go. Just know that those involved with magic are highly educated individuals...and your magical villains will likely be more dangerous than others.
Hope that all helps. I've posted here the stuff I sent Bill in an email about his character as well. Sorry this post got so long.
Enjoy! The new section will be up soon.
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